Oct. 30, 2025

Bandcamp vs. Spotify: Who’s Really Helping Artists?

Show Notes
Transcript

In this episode of the Music Business Newsletter with Matthew Rix, I respond to one of the most passionate (and brutal) emails I’ve ever received.
An artist called me out hard for my opinions on Bandcamp. He says I’m a “Spotify shill” and that if I truly cared about helping independent artists, I’d be telling them to stop giving their music away for free on streaming platforms and focus on Bandcamp, CDs, and direct fan support instead.
He lays out some strong points, including:
Bandcamp pays artists about 82% of each sale.
He’s made over $8,000 from just 1,200 followers.
Bandcamp gives artists access to their fans’ emails and real audience ownership.
Spotify pays around $0.003 per stream (about $1,000 for every 333,000 plays).
He says I’m teaching artists how to survive inside a broken system instead of showing them how to own their careers.
In this video, I break it all down the good, the bad, and the real truth about Bandcamp vs. Spotify.
We’ll talk about:
What Bandcamp actually does right
Why streaming still matters strategically
How artists can use both without losing control
The mindset difference between building attention and building ownership
This one gets real.
Got a question or a strong opinion about the music industry?
Just go to MatthewRix.com.
#MusicIndustry #Bandcamp #Spotify #IndependentArtist #MusicStreaming #ArtistAdvice #MattrixMinute #MatthewRix #MusicBusiness #BandcampFriday #StreamingRoyalties #ArtistPay #MusicMarketing

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Hey, this is Matthew Rix and today on the Music

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Business newsletter, I get a butt whooping. Maybe, But before

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we get into the butt whooping, if you like this video,

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like it, comment tell me where you agree. Maybe you

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disagree with me, you agree with this artist. If you

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have a question on the music industry that you want

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me to answer, just go to Matthewicks dot com click

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submit your question. I don't need you to become a member.

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I don't need you to buy a book. I don't

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need you to join a Patreon. Just go to Matthewricks

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dot com and you can be like this guy and

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send me an email and basically tell me I suck as.

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A human being.

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So, without further ado, let's dive into the email. Hey, Matthew,

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I saw your video telling artists to stay off of

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band camp. I respect your experience in the music industry,

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but I have to call you out on something because

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it's been bothering me since I watched that video. Emails

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to start off like this is like when you get

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a from your girlfriend who says we need to talk.

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You're like, oh, this should be lovely. But let's see

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what else he has to say. Here, he says you

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keep telling artists not to use band camp, and every

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time you say it, it honestly makes you sound like

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either a shareholder or a spokesperson for Spotify more than

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someone who's supposed to be helping independent artists. Well, I

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am not a spokesperson for Spotify. And if you watch

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that whole video where it was labeled streaming versus selling,

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I said Spotify does not pay artist enough. I am

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not a shareholder in Spotify either. I would not do that.

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That would yeah, that would be terrible. I am helping

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independent artists and we'll get into more of that, but

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let's let's give you your your your moment. He says,

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you always talk about building, building the algorithm, feeding the data,

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and playing the game. I don't think those are I've

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never I don't think I've ever used either three of

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those those phrases before, feeding the data, playing the game. No,

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I've never used either. Are you sure you're done on

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this prise yourviders?

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Right?

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Okay, I've never used that before, but I get what

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you're saying. I do talk about the algorithm and how

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you got to service it properly. So yeah, okay, I'll

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give you that one. Not building, but more feeding. Then

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you said feeding the data. I don't know what that means.

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And playing the game. Well yeah, because anytime you put

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yourself in the marketplace, I don't care if you're an artist,

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I don't care if you're a baker, I don't care

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if you are starting your law firm. Like, you have

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to get out in front of people. People got to

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be able to know who you are. They got to

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talk about you, They got to like what you're doing.

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Is that really calm? Playing the game or just marketing yourself.

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But you know, if you spend your entire life defending

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band camp, you're probably a little dunce just going to

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say it like it is no offense anyways. The email

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contains but that's the exact system that's destroying small artists

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like us Spotify.

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How is Spotify?

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How is any streaming service destroying small artists? How is

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an algorithm destroying small artist?

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I get it. The algorithm is annoying.

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The algorithm's annoying on everything from YouTube to Instagram to Spotify, whatever.

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But you can win at the algorithm. You can beat

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the algorithm.

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You just have to know how to do it.

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And it doesn't take long to just figure out patterns

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and rhythms and stuff. More artists destroy themselves by their

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dopey decisions they make than Spotify could ever imagine to Okay, but.

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The email continues.

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If you actually cared about helping artists, not just giving

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them motivational sound bites, you'd be telling them to get

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off of these platforms. He threw a not a Christian

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word before platforms. Mostly we'll just say platforms and build

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fan bases they can actually own. Do you think you

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own the platform on band camp? Do you think you

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own the platform on sundcloud? Do you think you own

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the platform on Instagram? The answer is no. If band

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Camp tomorrow decided that they didn't like what you were selling,

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or somebody filed the copyright infringement claim, your platform's gone,

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they'll lock you out of your count. The only time

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you actually own your platform is if you I mean,

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I guess if you have a website. But even if

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you were on stage, you don't own that platform. If

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you're playing at a venue or a coffee shop or

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a church or whatever, you don't own that stage because

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they could yanke you off.

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They could they could pull the sound if they don't

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like what you're.

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Doing the email continues, Let's talk about facts for a second.

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I almost wonder if this is like somebody within band Camp.

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I'm just I'm just throwing that out there, says band

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Camp pay artists directly. They take ten to fifteen percent

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and the rest goes.

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Straight to us. No middleman.

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Spotify pays around three tenths of a penny.

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You need roughly. He's doing math.

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Okay, you need roughly three hundred and thirty thousand plays

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to make one thousand dollars on Spotify. On band Camp,

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I can sell one hundred albums at ten dollars each

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and make that same amount in one day.

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Right, who's buying one hundred albums on band camp from you? Who?

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I mean you could sit here and say I could

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sell I could sell a million albums at band camp

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for ten dollars each.

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But who are these people who are buying us? Now?

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I'll get the emails from people who I saw one

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hundred albums a day on band camp. But who's buying

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one hundred albums in one day?

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Yeah?

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I mean you're throwing numbers out here, and yes, Spotify does. Yes,

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you can make more money on band camp if people

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go there. If they buy your album. But you're talking

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about right now. Band Camp is a puddle. In Spotify,

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Apple Music title, Amazon Music is the ocean. I want

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you as an artist to cover more ground. I want

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you as an artist to be able to get that

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music in the hands as as many people as possible,

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and you can't do it when the entire world's out there.

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But you're focused on a puddle. I don't think you

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sold one hundred albums in one day at ten dollars

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a pop. I'm just gonna say it. I don't know

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if you're saying you you did, but maybe you're just

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throwing out a number there and saying, well, I could

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sell one hundred albums in one day at ten dollars

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each and make the same amount of Spotify.

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But what you're missing is this.

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You said you need three hundred and thirty thousand plays

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on Spotify to make a thousand dollars on band camp.

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I can sell ten. I can sell one hundred albums.

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Would you rather have one hundred people the puddle listening

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to your music or would you have three one hundred

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and thirty thousand people three hundred and thirty three thousand

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people listening to your music. Now this if you are

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sending in emails about defending band Camp and you don't

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work for band Camp, and you're probably a purist, you're

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probably the guy who, like, would never get signed to

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a record label.

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You would never be that stupid to do it.

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But that's a question that I want you to ask yourself.

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Do you want three hundred and thirty three thousand people

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discovering your music or one hundred people. Let's continue with

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the email, shall we, he says band Camp. Let's fans

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pay more. I've had people spend twenty five dollars even

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fifty for a digital album just because it moved them.

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Try getting that from Spotify.

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Well, you can set up tipping on Spotify. You know,

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this is the type of artist right here who tells

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me I don't care about money. I'm not selfish, I

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don't like these big corporates. And then everything here you're

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talking about is money. And listen, if somebody is so

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moved by your music, they could just venmo you or

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cash app or z lu twenty five or fifty dollars

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because they were so moved by their music that they

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discovered on Apple Music by you, Right, And the email

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continues bandcamp gives artists the emails of their supporters. That's

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actual fan ownership, not just follower accounts controlled by an algorithm.

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Yeah, I mean that's cool.

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I don't like on our websites we don't have an

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email sign up.

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I don't.

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Yeah, we don't have an email sign up at matthew

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rix dot com because I don't want to send out

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emails because I barely check my email. If you know me,

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you're not sending me an email. You are, you are

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a texting me. But I mean it's cool to get

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fan emails because you can do micro targeting.

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You can you know, if you got you if you're

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this guy.

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And you're selling one hundred CDs a day and you

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find out that you got three hundred fans in Dallas, Texas,

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and you're gonna be hitting up Dallas and you send

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them a you send them up like. Yeah, I mean,

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that's a cool thing. I wish Spotify did do more

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stuff like this. But also at the end of the day,

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I don't really want to give I mean, I get

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enough emails that I don't check.

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I don't need any more. But it's a cool little thing.

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The email continues.

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You can sell merch CDs, vinyl and exclusive content all

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in one ecosystem. Well, I feel like I feel like

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I have to defend Spotify here, and then I'm going

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to get accused of being a shrill for Spotify even more.

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You can sell your merchandise on Spotify. You can sell

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your merchandise on YouTube. Apple Music doesn't do any of

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this because they don't care. Apple Music just doesn't care.

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They're not trying.

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They don't want you to know what your monthly listeners

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are unless you have the app for artists only. They

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don't want you to know how many plays and artist gets.

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They don't care. But with Spotify you can do that.

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But also, here's a novel idea. You can create your.

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Own web store, in your own website and not rely

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just strictly on band camp for everything.

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You could have it all, You could do it all.

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It says that all of this is built around artists sustainability,

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not corporate profit. Yeah, but they are taking fifteen percent.

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You make it sound like, you know, band Camp's just

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doing this out of the goodness of their heart, like

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they're there to make money as well. My guy email continues,

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I'm a small independent artist from Portland, I don't have

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a label or a team, just me, my laptop, and

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my fans. Over the last three years, I've built about

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twelve hundred followers on band camp.

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That's pretty good.

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Are there twelve hundred people who go to band camp

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every year? Okay, but that's pretty good. Twelve hundred followers

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in band camp. I'd love to know what your Instagram

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numbers are. And he says I've made over eight thousand

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dollars in total sales.

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Hold up, pulled up? Pulld up.

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You said I've done three hundred and fifty digital albums

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and one hundred and twenty CD sales and about sixty

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shirt sales.

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But earlier you were saying you could. It's just.

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Sell one hundred CDs at ten bucks a pop, you know,

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try to get that on Spotify. Now you're telling me

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you sold one hundred and twenty CDs in three years. Well,

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what happened to the one hundred CDs in a day?

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And sixty shirts? That's probably a dope shirt, man. You

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should let me see one, all right. I'm I love

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good merchandise, all right, even if you do work for

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band camp. Allegedly, the email continues, He's made eight thousand

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dollars in three years on band camp, he sold three

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hundred and fifty digital albums, one hundred and twenty CDs,

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and about sixty shirts, all to people who actually care

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about the music. Compare that to Spotify, where I've had

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about seventy thousand streams total and made roughly two hundred

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and ten dollars.

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That's insulting. Seventy thousand streams is nothing to sneeze it.

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That's pretty good. Number two.

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Okay, So if all of these numbers are correct, you

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are actually doing You're doing something right. To be honest

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with you, you are bringing people. If these numbers are correct,

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and these are the numbers you're you're doing on band camp,

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which this is an outliar. Most most arts are not

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doing these numbers on band camp. Trust me, you're doing set.

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You've done seventy thousand streams on Spotify. See artists do this,

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They go, they they they whine and complain that.

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Nobody's going to Spotify. I don't get any Spotify plays.

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But then you go.

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Back and look in the last six months, all they

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did was tell everybody off Spotify, rips them off, and

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don't go support them. So don't go support Spotify, but

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oh nobody supports me on Spotify.

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You see, you see the circle there.

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But seventy thousand streams on Spotify not bad, not bad

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at all. Two hundred and ten dollars and seventy thousand

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streams not great, not great at all. The email continues,

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and yet I keep seeing you tell artists to get

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their music on Spotify like it's the only path forward. Actually,

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for real, did you email the right person to defend

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band camp, because if you remember correctly, when I was

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talking about band Camp, I did say that Spotify is

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not the only avenue. You can have different revenue streams,

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you can have different avenues coming in. I never said

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that you got to get your music on Spotify because

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it's the end all, the be all. But you do

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need to get your spot You do need to have

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your music on Spotify. You do need to direct people

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to Spotify. Why because everybody's there, everybody's at Apple Music,

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there's a little bit of people at Entitle, and there's

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a little bit of people on Amazon Music, and then

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I guess somebody's still on.

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Pandora or something like that. I don't know.

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But the reason why I care about Spotify and the

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reason why I direct artists who go to Spotify is

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because everybody's there and people are pretty set in their ways,

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and not a lot of people want to go to

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an obscure, broken down website to buy an album that

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they don't even know what to do with and a

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physical CD no they probably can't play. Let's continue, you know,

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tell artists to get on Spotify like it's the only

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path forward. He says, it's not, which I agree, it's not.

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It's the hamster on the wheel that keeps us chasing

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attention instead of building real careers. My guy, you've sold

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one hundred and twenty CDs. That's not a real career. No, no,

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no offense. It's a good I mean, it's impressive numbers,

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but you're acting like, you know, if it wasn't for

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spot if it wasn't for band camp, you'd be sitting

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here living in a box in Portland, in Chaz or whatever.

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It's not.

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You don't have a building a real career on band

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camp either. You've sold one hundred and twenty CDs. Impressive, yes,

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but don't act like they're the game changer here, because

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those one hundred and twenty people, you could have also

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sent to Apple Music, to the iTunes store, to Amazon

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on MP three. Credit cards are already built in Amazon.

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Credit card numbers are already built in Apple iTunes.

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They don't even have to think about buying it. They

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just click and they buy it.

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Band Camp, I gotta go, I gotta register for account,

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I gott enter my credit card information, and you might

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have had more sales of band Camp would actually make

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it easier for people to get around and maybe create

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an app.

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But what do I know?

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The email continues. You talk a lot about emotional connections.

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That's literally what band camp was built for. Seriously, do

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you like is?

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Are you? Do you work with band Camp? Listeners there

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leave messages?

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He says, they buy merch share music and pay more

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because they want to support artists. Spotify listeners they barely

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even know who they're listening to because the playlist culture

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has turned artists into background noise. Do you go out

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and yell at clouds too? Like the Grandpa Simpson meme?

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So now we're against playlist You may artists have been

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discovered because of algorithm, you know, curated playofs. I have

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actually found artists. I have actually interviewed artists because it

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was brought up in My New Music Today on Spotify.

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You're going to get that on band camp. Playlist culture

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has turned artists into background noise.

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Yeah, i'd agree with that.

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I mean, we don't value music. That's why with my kids,

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I make them read books. I'm going to give them

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money to read books. When they finish the book, they

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get twenty dollars for each book they read because they

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don't value music. My daughter kind of does with their CDs,

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but you know, easy come, easy go with that. They

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don't value movies or TV because everything is on streaming.

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It's not like you have to go to the store

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and buy a DVD or wait for it to come

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in the mail.

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Like you just a couple of clicks on the remote

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and you get it.

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So I've actually, for the last couple of years made

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my kids read books and then I pay them to

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complete the book.

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We talk about it because it's like the.

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Last dying media of valuing somebody's art. And I hope

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that I can instill in them that if you value

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art in a book form, you'll be able to value

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it a music or live performance or acting and so

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on and so on. So yeah, it is background noise

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now because we don't value it. But what you're hoping

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is that you stand out from the background noise. You're

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hoping that while somebody's washing their dishes listening to a

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curated playlist, that they go, WHOA, who was that?

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Because I've done that. I've done that.

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Shout out to rich Will. That's how I found rich Will.

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That's how I discovered the rich Will because of a playlist.

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He's a great artist out of Dallas, Texas. Drop in

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and tell him I said hi, and then try to

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send them to band camp and.

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Buy one of your CDs. Anyways, the email continues, he says,

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I get it.

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Spotify looks sleek, it's convenient, and it makes artists feel

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legit to say they're on there. I don't know any

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artists that feel legit for being on Spotify. It's a

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pretty easy process to do. It's not like it's just

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an exclusive club. You get on tune Core, a distro

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kid or whoever you distribute your music through, and I

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guess you can be part of the exclusive club of Spotify.

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Is it sleek, yes? Is it user friendly? Yes?

356
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I think Spotify is actually better than Apple Music when

357
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it comes to the consumer aspect. I think Apple Music

358
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is pretty wonky. Title I had a title account for

359
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a little bit just to see what was going on.

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It's whatever, it's it's uninspiring. I did have a Pandora

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account back in the day. I actually, I actually think

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the band camp boys are more Oh I'm legit because

363
00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:37.319
I'm on band Camp and I'm a stupid Look these

364
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:39.839
other artists who are on Spotify. I think you guys

365
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have more of a god complex with legit, you know,

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the legit feeling than an artists on Spotify.

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I don't know.

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I've never heard an artist say I feel legit I'm

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on Spotify. I know, unless it's like their first single

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that ever was released. Email continues, But come on, man,

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you know this business. You've seen how labels and corporations

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have treated creators for decades. Yeah, that's why I said

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in that video that I think you're applying to. If

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you're to leave Spotify today, they're not even gonna miss

375
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a beat. They could care less. I would never invest

376
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in like a business like Spotify because the rooster is

377
00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:13.440
coming home soon, where they're gonna have to start paying

378
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more out to the labels. Artists aren't gonna the majors

379
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aren't gonna put up with us much longer, and they'll

380
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pull their catalog if they don't get paid.

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And labels, I mean, I mean, if you will.

382
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:25.960
We answer that email the other day that from the

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label that wants to pay them fifty you know, they

384
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want fifty percent of your music.

385
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Like, Yeah, those labels trample all over artists. But you

386
00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:34.079
get a good lawyer, you get a good label, you'll

387
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:36.559
have a good deal. You have a good life if

388
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:37.839
you play by the rules and you do what you're

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00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:39.799
supposed to do. The email continues.

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00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.519
Band Camp is one of the few platforms left that's

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00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:47.759
actually on our side. How because you can because somebody

392
00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:51.559
can leave a comment, because I can buy your album

393
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:53.559
for ten bucks or go over to iTunes and buy

394
00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:56.039
it for nine to ninety nine. Yeah, I know band

395
00:19:56.039 --> 00:20:01.640
camp takes fifteen percent, iTunes takes thirty. But how is

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